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Jul 30 07 1:29 PM

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I dont doubt the Light would sacrifice itself. Not in the least. Maybe even a Naaru would do so out of a belief of non-violent resistence.

But if you've ever sat in the middle of the Blood Knight Temple and listened to the conversations, or done their class quests, you'd know that the organization is rotten cruel and maybe even evil down to it's core. If nothing else it's extreamly imperialistic in nature, looking after Silvermoon, and only really Silvermoon's interests.

Not long ago, in Outland...
Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider and his blood elves waited until the newly arrived naaru departed Tempest Keep. He had little interest in what the naaru hoped to accomplish on this shattered world: it was Tempest Keep that had brought him here. At the prince's signal the elves stormed the dimensional fortress, quickly defeating its automated defenses and claiming its satellite structures. The only real threat the elves discovered was a lone naaru who had stayed behind to maintain the keep's defenses. With some difficulty, Kael'thas subdued the energy being and sent it to Quel'Thalas so that the magic-addicted blood elves could feed upon it.
Back in the capital city of Silvermoon, Magister Astalor Bloodsworn was not content with this idea. After long months of study and experimentation, he and his fellow wizards learned how to manipulate and corrupt the naaru's luminous energies. In the end the wizards devised a process by which the powers of the Light could be transferred to recipients who had not earned such abilities. Instead of feeding upon the naaru's magic, the blood elves would wield the naaru's Light-given powers themselves.

Lady Liadrin, formerly a priestess, had recently renounced her vows, for she felt the Light had abandoned her people. She learned of the wizards' achievement and volunteered to be the first to bend the stolen powers to her will. With her decision a new order was born: the Blood Knights. These renegade paladins are able to harness the sacred powers of the Alliance's noblest heroes.


I quoted the original Blizzard created text first. This second portion is also in the article, but does not appear on the WoW Website that I've seen. Likely fan speculation.

Though many blood elves applauded the creation of the Blood Knights, just as many dislike their methods and their attitude, especially the farstriders.

It is also important to note that not all High Elves, now Blood Elves, have abonded their former ways and become Blood Knights. A very small minority of Blood Elves still follow their former more pure Paladin/Priestly ways.



Have any of the end game Blood Knights seen any lore to indicate from NPCs that this second quote is the case?
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#1 [url]

Jul 30 07 1:47 PM

To my understanding, the ability to mana tap and arcane torrent are gifts given by Illidan himself as payment for the BE's service. (Taken from the new WoW PnP monster guide) This working with Illidan and his demon-borne power also corrupts EVERY BE with this ability (I.E. all of the one playable... unless you never use Mana tap) with Fel Energy. Hypothetically, the Fel energy blocks out the usage of the Light as a true paladin would use it, and as such, has made them have to rape a Naaru of its' power to use it, making true Paladins among the BE's not only laughable to the other Bloodknights, but impossible. The only way that I see it could work would be a twisted form of a paladin that rapes the naaru because he has to, but uses the power in the way intended by the Order of Light. (I have a Bloodknight with this very storyline.) Is it possible for a Bloodknight to renounce his vows and take up the mantle of a true paladin with The Light forsaking his people? I have no idea, but I'd kind of like to see it, if for no other reason than I really don't care for the current Bloodknight establishment.

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FOR THE HORDE!

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#2 [url]

Jul 30 07 2:03 PM

Pffft. I've seen two other Blood Knights in RP who follow the naaru-raping power hungry raging addiction Blood Elves the way they're written.

Everyone and their brother is apparently still a holy knight who is ashamed of their Blood Knight heritage and hates the way the naaru is held captive and just want to revel in the true Light and dance with singing birds and bunnies. Not to say that's not a valid way to play a character at all, but honestly, there's like a million of you little buggers that Silvermoon needs to squash under their collective Blood Knight heel. *shakes fist*

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#3 [url]

Jul 30 07 2:07 PM

QUOTE (Merrel Sundrake @ July 30, 2007 07:03 pm)
Pffft. I've seen two other Blood Knights in RP who follow the naaru-raping power hungry raging addiction Blood Elves the way they're written.

Everyone and their brother is apparently still a holy knight who is ashamed of their Blood Knight heritage and hates the way the naaru is held captive and just want to revel in the true Light and dance with singing birds and bunnies. Not to say that's not a valid way to play a character at all, but honestly, there's like a million of you little buggers that Silvermoon needs to squash under their collective Blood Knight heel. *shakes fist*

I love you.

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#4 [url]

Jul 30 07 2:54 PM

I wanted to take another route for Anathiel; rather than be the cruel, heartless naaru-sucking lightwielder of lore, or the dinseyish lightwielder who remains pure and true.

I based his path on this: http://adrp.3.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=376

Having been there for the fall of Silvermoon, he had a great many questions after the dust had settled, foremost among which dealt with life and the Light. Why had it failed them? To make an origin story short, he came to the realization that the Light did not fail them, they merely did not know how to wield it. They begged, prayed and cajoled the power of the Light, borrowing what was around them in the universe based on their belief that everything was connected, themselves included, and they could affect its ebb and flow. To oversimplify: Jedi.

The path taken by the Council, and its Blood Knights, was to corrupt that power by dominating it, twisting it, and making it their own. There was no connection, only domination. They wield a power that is in no way connected to anything else, in all the ways that matter. It was merely siphoned from somewhere else, the way we would pump gas, without thought of the cycle of life and where that gas came from. Immediate. Corrupt. Easy. One more oversimplification: Sith.

The Forgotten Shadow is something else entirely. I expanded on the lore by assuming that more than just forsaken would be interested in the path; especially belfs. They've lost everything, but just as in every society, there are those who realize the way of the world is wrong, and set out to find another way. These people, well, Anathiel at least, believes the reason the Light failed them in their hour of need was because we thought ourselves a part of it. We are not. It is what binds the world together, but it is not, as believed, a part of us. Therefore, it remains that through a powerful act of will, the Light can be manipulated... not unlike a mage manipulates elements. Rather than coaxing the light from within and without, or sucking dry a dying, dominated being, and relying upon it for replenishment, the Light, with proper discipline, could be wielded with greater power than either. By removing the self from the equation, there is nothing to hold back what you can do to the world around you but will alone. And while it might not be near as potent as sucking down naaru-juice, it has none of the drawbacks, foremost, the need to replenish as you use it up. Last oversimplification: Dark Jedi.

Lastly, the Forgotten Shadow is not inherently evil, it is the will of the follower who is "good" or "evil." Anathiel does it to take up the mantle he wore before the fall: a healer and helper to his people.

I know this doesn't answer your question Apho, but I figured I'd throw it out there as an alternate path. The philosophy behind it is much deeper than I've written here, I've just tried to keep it short and sweet to get the point across.

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#5 [url]

Jul 30 07 3:14 PM

QUOTE (Anathiel @ July 30, 2007 07:54 pm)
I know this doesn't answer your question Apho, but I figured I'd throw it out there as an alternate path. The philosophy behind it is much deeper than I've written here, I've just tried to keep it short and sweet to get the point across.

Thank you very much for sharing, guys. It's always good to get a diffrent POV on just about anything.

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#6 [url]

Jul 30 07 4:51 PM

QUOTE (Apho @ July 30, 2007 01:29 pm)
Though many blood elves applauded the creation of the Blood Knights, just as many dislike their methods and their attitude, especially the farstriders.

It is also important to note that not all High Elves, now Blood Elves, have abonded their former ways and become Blood Knights. A very small minority of Blood Elves still follow their former more pure Paladin/Priestly ways.



Have any of the end game Blood Knights seen any lore to indicate from NPCs that this second quote is the case?

While not exactly what you're looking for as I've never played a blood elf paladin, there are two NPCs that preach in front of a crowd in the southwest corner of the Bazaar.

After they talk about how they think the horde will be poor allies, they start talking about how the need for magic has blinded their people, and they should forsake it because the addiction is dooming them all.

This isn't directly related to the Naaru or Blood Knights, but the lust for magic is ultimately what drove the elves to capture a Naaru and form the Blood Knights. So, this is the best proof I can find so far that not all elves approve of the new Blood Knights and tyranny of the magisters. Also, one of the NPCs that preaches is "Priest Ennas", so he may be trying to convince elves to go back to the old style of worshiping the light.

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#8 [url]

Jul 30 07 5:28 PM

Simply put, you say that the "Good witch" style of Bloodknights is overdone, while every Bloodknight I've seen has been a "Bend the light to your will" Bloodknight.
The latter alwasy reminded me of the stereotypical "Bad is good, good is bad" bad guy. Not to mention they tend to be jerks, thinking they are in control of a magocracy like Silvermoon. (Meaning Mages run it.. very much like Dalaran.)
the "Collective bloodknight heel" is too firmly lodged in there own "Collective Bloodknight rears" to be a threat. They're too busy plotting their own power bases and such.

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#9 [url]

Jul 30 07 5:47 PM

QUOTE (Shinmen @ July 30, 2007 05:28 pm)
Simply put, you say that the "Good witch" style of Bloodknights is overdone, while every Bloodknight I've seen has been a "Bend the light to your will" Bloodknight.
The latter alwasy reminded me of the stereotypical "Bad is good, good is bad" bad guy. Not to mention they tend to be jerks, thinking they are in control of a magocracy like Silvermoon. (Meaning Mages run it.. very much like Dalaran.)
the "Collective bloodknight heel" is too firmly lodged in there own "Collective Bloodknight rears" to be a threat. They're too busy plotting their own power bases and such.

I don't quite agree with this. I do agree that Silvermoon is mostly controlled by the magisters, but the Blood Knights are certainly a threat to the Blood Elves that wish to remain more true to their old ways. While the Magisters are able to forcefully bend people to their will, and frequently do, the Blood Knights serve as a figurehead for the new direction of the blood elves. As a figurehead, they gain they gain favour among the general populace. With the people of Silvermoon all looking up to them, it just serves to boost them into a higher position of power.

I think this is illustrated well by asking a guard in Silvermoon where the hunter trainers are. The guards respond in a very condescending manner towards hunters. The people look up to the Blood Knights, and desperately hope that they will deliver them to some sort of glory.

As it stands, the Blood Knights are powerful, but they aren't that powerful. If it was necessary, I'm sure the magisters could wrest all control from them. The longer the Blood Knights exist and integrate themselves into Blood Elf society, the less likely this will be the case. Their powers are formidable, but they are young, and would not likely have many skilled disciples at this point.

I think it would be unwise to discard them simply because of their arrogance.

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#10 [url]

Jul 30 07 6:22 PM

QUOTE (Shinmen @ July 30, 2007 05:28 pm)
Simply put, you say that the "Good witch" style of Bloodknights is overdone, while every Bloodknight I've seen has been a "Bend the light to your will" Bloodknight.
The latter alwasy reminded me of the stereotypical "Bad is good, good is bad" bad guy. Not to mention they tend to be jerks, thinking they are in control of a magocracy like Silvermoon. (Meaning Mages run it.. very much like Dalaran.)
the "Collective bloodknight heel" is too firmly lodged in there own "Collective Bloodknight rears" to be a threat. They're too busy plotting their own power bases and such.

...Of course every Blood Knight you see RPs bending the light to their will. That's what Blood Knights ARE. They have taken the Light captive and are using it for their own purposes, however noble or corrupt that might be, they are taking it without permission and bending it to their will.

As for the bad guys being jerks, pretty much every blood elf I've seen is RPed with some amount of pride and pompousness. They're quite known for that trait, the Sin'dorei. And as someone already mentioned, the Blood Knights can afford to be jerks. While there may be tension between the rings of Blood Knights, Magisters, and the somewhat downtrodden Rangers (Which I have tried to play up to encourage RP between 'factions') the Blood Knights are extreme up-and-comers in the worst way. They are the ones keeping the Scourge at bay with their Light-wielding powers, and are looked up to by the people as their new hope, their new protectors. The poor rangers have been pretty much left by the wayside, and though they have their followers, most of the citizens use them as a scapegoat for Quel'thalas's fall and their failure. Blizzard made very sure that that is the ambience of Silvermoon. The Blood Knights may be bullies and new kids on the block, but they are indeed a figurehead, and are gaining great powers of their own.

I'm saying that Blood Knights often aren't the cute, cuddly 'I lurve the Light!' types. Not that there AREN'T those types, but they are supposed to be quite rare and are more of then not, high elves.

And as for plotting our power bases. Hell yeah. Every faction in Silvermoon is plotting their own power base. Politics are hell and make for some awesome RP.

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#11 [url]

Jul 30 07 6:41 PM

QUOTE (Merrel Sundrake @ July 30, 2007 06:22 pm)
QUOTE (Shinmen @ July 30, 2007 05:28 pm)
Simply put, you say that the "Good witch" style of Bloodknights is overdone, while every Bloodknight I've seen has been a "Bend the light to your will" Bloodknight.
The latter alwasy reminded me of the stereotypical "Bad is good, good is bad" bad guy. Not to mention they tend to be jerks, thinking they are in control of a magocracy like Silvermoon. (Meaning Mages run it.. very much like Dalaran.)
the "Collective bloodknight heel" is too firmly lodged in there own "Collective Bloodknight rears" to be a threat. They're too busy plotting their own power bases and such.


And as for plotting our power bases. Hell yeah. Every faction in Silvermoon is plotting their own power base. Politics are hell and make for some awesome RP.

That's why I like being a rogue! I don't really belong to any of the factions, and while my character silently roots for the Farstriders, neither of the other factions have any disdain for him as he does not publicly support them. At least not yet, anyway.

I really do find the political aspect of the new Blood Elf culture really fun, and it's great working it into RP.

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#12 [url]

Jul 30 07 7:57 PM

Okay... after doing a bit more digging, here is what I came up with.
BE's as a whole are inherently corrupted by the Fel energies in their blood thanks to Illidan. (Once again, my source is the new Monster Guide for the WoW tabletop game. Sorry, it's on hand.) According to what I've read, the Bloodknights and BE's in general are willing to do anything to smack the Legion and the Scourge around like an unruly nephew. (just a figure of speech.) so it's a safe bet that they don't so much HATE the Naaru that they've enslaved, as taken the power with a grim resolve to do the right thing. and it's also mentioned that even warlocks don't view the Demons as potential allies, rather tools to work with. What I chalk up all the NPC bravado talk in the temple is akin to what I call "Locker Room Talk", or standing around bragging and not sharing real feelings with anyone on account of looking weak. (Another Sin'dorei trait.) Chances are, there are quite a few Bloodknights with mixed feelings over the whole ordeal. I wouldn't think it would be a rarity to want to do good for your race / faction with power you've stolen. That's probably what drove most Bloodknights to join up in the first place. As far as politics goes? A little intrigue can go a long way. with the fledgling Bloodknight organization being as young as it is, nothing is set in stone, and that very much allows all the up and comers in this up and coming organization to vie for power. Very much like a Mob War.

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#13 [url]

Jul 30 07 8:09 PM

QUOTE (Kawmie @ July 30, 2007 06:41 pm)
That's why I like being a rogue! I don't really belong to any of the factions, and while my character silently roots for the Farstriders, neither of the other factions have any disdain for him as he does not publicly support them.

Actually, technically speaking there is a Rogue faction in Silvermoon: the Pathstalkers. Don't know much about 'em, though; they'd be wide open for any RPer to take the idea and run with it in any direction they wanted.

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#14 [url]

Jul 30 07 8:19 PM

QUOTE (Kawmie @ July 30, 2007 05:41 pm)

That's why I like being a rogue! I don't really belong to any of the factions, and while my character silently roots for the Farstriders, neither of the other factions have any disdain for him as he does not publicly support them. At least not yet, anyway.

Just remember, Farstrider=/=Ranger, although I believe the Farstriders are all Rangers. It's akin to Marines=/=USNavy, although they are of the same branch of the military and have the same commanding officer.

The Farstriders original purpose was long-distance recon. As in, places as far south as STV. It was their job to gather information from far away (why they were called Farstriders) and pass it on to the Silvermoon government to analyse. Ironically, at the present most of the Farstriders are no further than the Ghostlands. The Ranger-General is a Farstrider, but not all Rangers are Farstriders. Only the few and the proud get that title. (I often get a giggle when I see a lowbie in Silvermoon with an RSP tag of "Farstrider" but hey, who am I to claim Lor's a Ranger?)

Also, the Farstriders try not to get involved with the politics. The greater Ranger corps does, since it's a larger organization with a wider mission than the Farstriders.

Just FYI and gathered from what I've found on the web.

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#15 [url]

Jul 30 07 8:26 PM

QUOTE (Thaag @ July 30, 2007 08:19 pm)
QUOTE (Kawmie @ July 30, 2007 05:41 pm)

That's why I like being a rogue! I don't really belong to any of the factions, and while my character silently roots for the Farstriders, neither of the other factions have any disdain for him as he does not publicly support them. At least not yet, anyway.

Just remember, Farstrider=/=Ranger, although I believe the Farstriders are all Rangers. It's akin to Marines=/=USNavy, although they are of the same branch of the military and have the same commanding officer.

The Farstriders original purpose was long-distance recon. As in, places as far south as STV. It was their job to gather information from far away (why they were called Farstriders) and pass it on to the Silvermoon government to analyse. Ironically, at the present most of the Farstriders are no further than the Ghostlands. The Ranger-General is a Farstrider, but not all Rangers are Farstriders. Only the few and the proud get that title. (I often get a giggle when I see a lowbie in Silvermoon with an RSP tag of "Farstrider" but hey, who am I to claim Lor's a Ranger?)

Also, the Farstriders try not to get involved with the politics. The greater Ranger corps does, since it's a larger organization with a wider mission than the Farstriders.

Just FYI and gathered from what I've found on the web.

Hmm, well I suppose that sort of raises questions about who now speaks for the Rangers/Farstriders. With Sylvanas killed and raised as a banshee, did they ever promote a new ranger-general? The structure of the sin'dorei military seems to have degraded in favour of the up and coming Blood Knights. As far as politics are concerned, while the Farstriders likely did prefer to stay out of politics, it looks like politics are being forced upon them. The Blood Knights seem to be trying to smear their name into the ground, and look to be doing a fairly good job of it.

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#16 [url]

Jul 30 07 9:56 PM

I follow the way of the Blood knights, I have respect for Narru who are not with the Alliance but if they are I will suck their power from them.

Also there is a Blood elf Paladin from the Silver hand at the Bulwark, he says he was the aprentice of Uther but thinks its uthers fault for thr fall of Silvermoon. So hes the only Blood elf paladin on Horde thats not a Blood knight.



LONG LIVE THE BLOOD KNIGHTS!

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#17 [url]

Jul 31 07 1:02 AM

Isn't the leader of the blood elves technically the ranger general? If not he's still there hanging out in the triumvirate of leaders. He's the one with the Blood Elf Bandit Mask™ on.

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#18 [url]

Jul 31 07 2:56 AM

QUOTE (Valkors @ July 31, 2007 01:02 am)
Isn't the leader of the blood elves technically the ranger general? If not he's still there hanging out in the triumvirate of leaders. He's the one with the Blood Elf Bandit Mask™ on.

I just checked, and there is a Ranger-General there. His name is Halduron Brightwing, though he's not the guy in the bandit mask, that's the Grand Magister. Interesting that the Ranger-General is still a part of what looks like their ruling council, yet the name of the rangers is allowed to be tarnished.

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#19 [url]

Jul 31 07 3:30 AM

OK, it's 4 AM and I haven't slept yet, so this is going to be extremely fuzzy and contain elements of me speaking out of my ass when I mean to reference wowwiki instead, but here's my two cents on some of this...

There are a handful of different agendas. There are those who want what's best for Silvermoon and the Sin'dorei, and those who obey Kael. And all sorts of power grubbery in between.

Teh ruling council: my basic understanding was this. Regent Lord Lor'themar Theron: good guy, good intentions, has his hands full, takes too much advice from Rommath. Halduron Brightwing: in charge of Rangers, Theron's right hand man, had silly hair (from what I recall). Rommath: evil bastard who is Kael's mouthpiece on Azeroth. Blood Knight leadership from what I've seen tends to be Rommathly inclined. As for the Pathstalkers...haven't the slightest clue. But I'd suppose that the two groups, Rangers and Blood Knights/Magisters would fall on political lines of Brightwing and Theron vs. Rommath. While all three are standing together in that room, not all three are on the same page. Rommath got to go to Outland with Kael, if I remember correctly, and was sent back to preach the badness. Theron and Brightwing were left behind doing the right thing, i.e., defending Silvermoon.

The fact that I have a raging crush on Theron doesn't help my case for logic either. But I'm pretty sure I've read evidence for all this somewhere. Unless I dreamt it.

*stumbles to bed*

*climbs back out of bed to derail the topic once more*

But I do believe we were talking about Blood Knights? Yes. Pretty damn evil. Awesome if played that way. Kinda annoying and emo if played the other way. I learned from experience with my emo elf who's much happier to be back with the rangers >.< But a well-played Blood Knight is the sexiest thing ever.

...

*collapses again*



(edited to allow for further rambling)

Ilarion Ragewind - Level 80 Blood Elf Marksman Hunter, Eternally Confined to Dailies (https://twitter.com/hvymetalhunter)
Melgaura Bloodblade - Level 71 Orc Arms Warrior, Unafraid to Die
Kahssan Blacksun - Level 74 Blood Elf Holy Priest, Wishes He Could Heal the World
Miran (Miiran in game) Blacksun - Level 58 Blood Elf Death Knight, Tired of Picking Flowers
Halyd Blacksun - Level 48 Blood Elf Retribution Paladin, Father, Husband, Warrior
Belariel Ketarsin- Level 27 Blood Elf Fire Mage, Surrounded By Critters
Ohashame Snowtotem - Level 22 Tauren Elemental Shaman, Mama Oha
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---
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#20 [url]

Jul 31 07 12:49 PM

Interestingly....A few of the rogue-trainer's titles are "Pathstalker" and this title is shared with Syndicate and Defias mobs....

As far as the emo-ness of Knights who have their doubts...*anyone* is going to be emo when they have a moral dilemma. Sooner or later every Knight will have that dilemma because it's written into the story that they will find out about Kael selling them out.

BTW Halduron is part of the ruling council because he knows information about the remnants of the Sunwell. However, a lot of Rangers still hold allegiance to Sylvanas as their true Ranger-General, simply because although she's not alive, she's not dead either.

And yes, Halduron has some silly effing hair. Get a scrunchie!

Edit: but his armor is sweeeeeeeet looking.

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